October 21, 2011

Gilgitis can't be MP, chief secretary, army or police chiefs in Pakistan

The Terrorland Report - [UPDATED] 

GILGITI is a random term for a person from Gilgit-Baltistan, a region known as the Orphaned Land of Pakistan. The Pakistani government is controlling this mountainous region with iron-fists since 1947 as the over two million people of the region has no constitutional rights or a geographical status within the country.

The people of this region have no representation in the Pakistani Parliament, and they say: "We are treated by the civilian and military bureaucracy, especially secret agencies, worse than animals for the last 64 years."


People of Gilgit-Baltistan are being terrorized, locals say. The situation of human rights has worsened over the years in the region. Locals are exploited in every way -- economically, socially and intellectually -- by the "Stalin-like" bureaucrats, appointed from Islamabad.

Locals can't be member of Parliament (MP), chief secretary of the region, army or police chief, they complain and demand constitutional status as the Fifth Province of Pakistan. Recently,  this demand has got momentum as every member of the new generation is getting frustrated by the traditional tyrant strategy of the federal government of Pakistan.

Recently, a member of The Terrorland Team was invited to a cyberspace discussion among the youths of the region, which is being published here so that the "kept-ignorant people" of Pakistan and intoxicated authorities in Rawalpindi (Pakistan Army) and Islamabad (President and Prime Minister) get a "real view" of the situation. The government depends only on false official reports that "everything is under-control". This traditional mantra, being repeated for decades, can't see the volcano ready to erupt!

In the said discussion, the initiator, Sarmad Saeed Khan, is said to be a policeman working in Lahore. Earlier, he had reportedly worked as Inspector-General Gilgit-Baltistan Police. Rais Kamil Jan Baigal is the admin/owner of the group. Here is the discussion without any comment or editing:  

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Rais Kamil Jan, I have been invited by the National Institute of Management Lahore to give a talk on Challenges of Gilgit Baltistan on 24th of this month. After my leaving GB the system of government has changed which would have resolved some problems and created new ones. I would like you to help me in preparing my presentation by enlisting some special problems which the administration and people of GB are presently facing. I shall be waiting for your response. Officers of Grade 18 will be attending the occasion. Regards. 
Ehsan Jamil Sandrana: Loved the way how you utilise your liaison in collecting key notes for seminars. Great sir
Masood Karim: Dear Mr. Sarmad Saeed Khan! I really appreciate your thoughtful approach towards identifying the problems in Gilgit-Baltistan. Although there are several cross-cutting areas need to be focused and to be addressed from policymakers, Littering is one of the major area that needs to be addressed. I believe, in years to come this beautiful piece of land would be deluged with garbage, seen as we don't have any result-oriented policy to address the said dilemma. Therefore, I humbly endorse my idea to look into this matter meticulously, so that your audience could come up with an effective and prolific resolution to the problem.

Ali Taj: Dear Sir, Issues are multidimensiona: Social, economical, political and and Adminstrative! IA! I will come up with a comprehensive essay about these by mid night or tomorrow!

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: Dear Sir, I am working on your Given Assignment, I request Ali Taj, Junaid Abdullah, Atif Khurshid, Khurshid Ahmad Jan, Javed Akber, Nur Momad, Ali Ahmad Jan, Alam Anjum, Adil Jan Baigal, Zaeem Zia and all to present their Suggestion in this wonderful Gathering, Dear Sarmad Saeed Shb I will prepare Power point Presentation also in this regard. I hope GBVM (name of the group/forum) will bring real Issues. ‎Shah Adil Shah, Nasir Ullah Biag, Abdul Hakim, Snow Leopard, Farooq Ahmed Khan need your help in this. ‎Nasir Ullah Biag dear Please share your Ideas

Alam Anjum: ‎Raees Kamil Jan Baigal i will call you for this... i am coming on 24th evening to ISB also

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: I suggest that all can paste that on in this discussion sessions so that we can know what are real Burning Issues of GB. ‎Nur El Amyn, Noor Akbar, Fida Ali Shah Ghizri, Peer Muhammad, Abdul Jahan, Abbas Ali Khan, Aliya Gul, Gul Afshan, Jhoolay Laal, Irshad Kamal. Your input need. ‎Ghazanfar Ali, Aslam Khan Ghalib, Almurtazabooks Gilgit, Alinawab Gilgiti, Asad Ullah Gilgiti, Bagrote Gilgit-Baltistan, Brett Lee Gilgit, Farzand E GilgitBaltistan, Gilgit-Baltistan Intellectuals, Gilgit Baltistan, Please Share your Ideas. ‎Asad Ullah Gilgiti, Aslam Gilgiti, Emma Varley, Bagrote Gilgit-Baltistan, Habib Sulemani, Ali Ahmad Jan, Aziz Ahmed, Atif Khurshid, Abeed Nazar, Nazir Ahmed Bulbul GBVM would Appreciate your Comments. ‎Nazar Muhammad Bozdar, Zameer Abbas, Naseem Zafar, Sanam Zafar, Zafar Iqbal, Zafar Iqbal, Zafar Iqbal @Ali Shah, Naeem Durrani, Gilgit Baltistan Newz GBVM would Appreciate your Comments. ‎Akbar Khan Hillbi, Badar Muneer Khan, Jalal Ali, Muhammad Zaman, Raja Shahid Zaman, Abdul Rahman Bukhari, Alinawab Gilgiti, Tasawur Ul Karim Baig, Adnanullah Baig, Moin Ali Baigal GBVM Appreciates your Comments.

Jhoolay Laal: the biggest problem is sectarian, people getting killed in the name of religion. The other problem is lack of representation in the upper house of the country. the third problem is emerging concern of people that they are left at the mercy of consequences, after the Atta-abad lake outburst. Their is not a proper city planning with the TMA of Gilgit. The solid wastes are not dumped at their proper sites. they are thrown in open spaces, which can pose great threat to environment in future. the other most important problem is the lack of awareness among people regarding the glacial receding and the consequences. one need to remember the greatest glaciers present in the region. I think the KIU must incorporate syllabus at higher level regarding GLOF (Glacial Lakes Outburst Floods). Tourism industry has been paralysed due to lack of a coherent policy in hand. I think these are some problems as far I can say. Thanks..

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Please divide your comments in Political, Economic, Legal, Constitutional, Social, administrative, Environmental, Law and Order and other categories. It will make my task easier. There was serious sectarian problem during the first six months of my job in GB but during the last year and a half there was not a single incident of sectarian violence. What went wrong after 2007 and how did the new political set up tackle this problem?

Almurtazabooks Gilgit: sarmad shahib regarding politics the main issue is insufficient legal powers to politicians ...social and moral conditions greatly depends on the educational system specially on quality elementary education our experienced team is of point of view that specially governments schools pattern and courses are not according to standards... an educated society is vital and is like back bone for any economic , social, development .... constitutional changes are just cosmetic changes as there is no such legal rights given to the people of GILGIT-BALTISTAN. 

sectarian rampant clashes in gilgit is due to late justice... you know justice delayed is justice denied otherwise this area is the piece of heaven as you are well aware.. cont.........there is a need to educate people for environmental care as there is no such activity is on notice... political awareness is zero in public indeed there is a need to educate public .... one major issue which is erecting hurdles on way towards a peaceful, developed gilgit is SECTARIAN war between muslims ....well police role is appreciate-able still there is a need to train them more and to motivate them to keep away there religious believes during there duty... regards ..AMBC gilgit

Nur Momad: ‎@ Sarmad sb - Although your question was directed to Kamil, I think these critical, but factual, observations may help you in understanding how an increasingly higher number of people are looking at GB. There are several opportunities (either in potential or practice) but, unfortunately, the challenges are also immense)

Legal and Constitutional - GB is, still, not a legal/constitutional part of Pakistan. It may never become one, if we look at the lack of progress on the resolution of Kashmir dispute, to which we were forcefully connected by the state.

Law and Order - Despite of the heavy presence of military/para-military and police force, the terrorists can kill anyone anywhere. The region has been, systematically, turned into a hub of smuggled/stolen vehicles and goods (coming from China).

Political - The current political set-up is a face-saving gimmick, staged to muffle the dissent that would otherwise emerge.

Cultural - The rarest and smallest languages are endangered because of cultural onslaught, intentional or unintentional. The indigenous Wakhi Burushaski and Doomaki population of Gojal Valley are jeopardized , because of the present and future massive Chinese investments. All efforts on the cultural front are either sponsored by NGOs or the local civil society, with little or no patronization from the authorities. A local living legend, Ustad Jan Ali, is forced to work as a peon/gardener at a school.

Environment - Expansion of KKH, the plan for future rail-road and gas-pipe plans, are serious threats for the fragile ecosystem of Khunzhrav National Park. Similar issues are being faced by other national parks and human settlements. The mining/exploration leases to foreign companies is likely to further threaten the environment, while also creating some jobs. History teaches that all corporations investing in "museum-like" lands, end up messing with the natural/social environment of the region.

Administrative - Raft with corruption and nepotism (sectarian, ethnic, regional). Everybody in GB today talks about appointments in the GB Education Department, by paying a certain amount (PKR 300,000). No one dares, or is interested in, raising the issue or investigating the talk of the town. A minister hires around 400 employees on contract basis in a single department in a single district. Bureaucracy (read CS) jumps in to annul some of the appointments.

Social - Suicides are rising. There is a major issue of unemployment. The society is threatened by fragmentation and compartmentalization, where identities are either sectarian or ethnic. As i mentioned earlier, this is a critical depiction of the current state of affairs in GB. I think the positives should be shared by some other friends, as a response to my observations.

Asad Shah: agree Noor kka

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Fauzia Wali Khan, Zizi what do you think and whats your research regarding Suicide cases in GB and Other.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Please comment on the conflict over land acquisition in Diamer for Bhasah Dam. I have heard that people have got huge sums of money for their arid land and have now bought lands in Ghizer and Gilgit which has brought about some demographic changes. What about presence of Taliban between Phunder and Shandur? What about the boundary dispute between Chitral and Ghizer? How about influence of the MQM? Has Nulter power project started working satisfactorily? What about one Secretary holding two or more charges? Did you get equipment like MRI, CT Scan etc? How's the issue of the nationalist forces going on? How about sectarian polarization among the government servants? Is the road of Kargah Nala in tact or washed away? The material used in constructing that road was very poor and I had reported it to the Chief Secretary of that time. I have heard that the US forces have established a base in Wakhan belt. Is it true? If yes, what implications it may have on GB's geopolitical status?

Fauzia Wali Khan: sarmad saab.. this is wonderful.. let me get my thoughts organized- will comment on the lack of Mental Health Facilities in GB.. and the High incidence of Depression in pple of our region.. ‎Raees Kamil Jan Baigal.. my dear GBVM members.. i have taken on a new post.. apart from working at a major inpatient psych unit in Boston, I am also on Faculty at Boston University Scoolof Medicine now.. i had previously been on Faculty at Tufts University.. it is my honor to represent the woman of GB..

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Asad Jan, come up with any real issues which u think is important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ali Taj: Starting of with Nur Bhai's comment about Constitutional and Legal Limbo: The implications are economical, political, and social. First of all, it has resulted into an identity crisis and political vacuum. Identity crisis has direct impact on educated youth, studying principles of political science and human rights, we get quite frustrated about our constitutional status, adding to severity of the issue, our countrmen include us either in KPK or Kashmir directly offending our right of preserving individual identity within fabric of our beloved country Pakistan. I would like to say that, the majority of our countrymen are unaware about the status of GB whether educated or uneducated. 

Secondly, political vacuum: the experementation of dummy and psuedo political setup strongly controlled by beauracracy leaves littles room for fullfillment of popular will and nurturing of political insitutions. Uptil now, I have followed three elections, and in all I saw a government orchestrated by federation. And, it generally held theory that bearaucracy always work for maximising its power and interests instead of effectively working. With absence of civilian check on them they are free to do whatever they want to in GB. The identity crisis and political vacuum has quite social and economical consequences: frustrated youth is going to be an easy pray for pan nationallists, pursuing irrational agendas like separatism, and political vacuum alonwith absenceof healthy political insitutions forces youth to shift their frustration to sectarian and regional conflicts. 

Economically, less vibrant political insitutions and powerless Govt leaves no hope for well studied and calculated policies and programs for employment, education and health acounting for very delayed developmental work and growth. I want to give example of Konodass Bridge, it took 9 years to get it done, I was in 8th class, when work was in progess, I was in 2nd year, work was in progess, I was in fourthteenth year, work was in progress, I am now, in 16th years, Its almost almost completed(The road on either side of bridge has not been yet carpeted). Similarly, strong beaucratic controll causes the moral hazardous behavious in our politicians, they acquit themselves from any electoral accountability living masses with problems of daily lives. Classic example of Failure of Political leadership from fulfilling popular demands is " Issue of Atabad Lake" I want to highhilght an issue specific to women: NO Women Police Station in GB. I have good information and can retrieve more about problems faced by women police in GB.

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Yasir Abbas, I am waiting for your comments

Ali Taj: As far as Talibans are concern, their is no chance of infiltration from shandoor or phander, successful and peacful Shandoor Polo festival attended by foriegners as well locals is good example to prove it.. MQM actively participated in Election 2009, It has been able to secure a seat as well and to my information a runner up in Hunza and region 3 of Gilgit. The main reason for it, is a good chunk of GBianz use to live karachi, creating a dependancey relationship with MQM. Also, to my knowledge I heard that MQM encouraged young, educated and people from lower classes to run for elections, fully backing them up with finance and publicity. It is a good sign of healthy political activity in the region.

Yasir Abbas: I believe the nature of conference is "Problem identification oriented" so it makes no point to repeat the history by talking about the the rights or constitutional status of GB. You should better highlight the key issues mainly associated with the government and the masses.. the inability of government to deliver and at the same time the crisis with which the people of GB are currently going, is something worthy to be discussed. Highlight the core issue of transportation, the KKH and the plane issues.

Ali Taj: Regarding, health facility: I dont know exactly about MRI, CT Scan but to share; I visited DHQ Hospital Gilgit, I was little upset seeing long ques, however, at end of day recieved good health care for my mother.

Brett Lee Gilgit: To be perfectly honest with you and at the same time I hate to admit that my region is badly trapped among the lethal ills, everywhere there is complete darkness, we are in hopelessness, restlessness, helplessness situation. We do not know where we do stand? where we are heading? I can not see any becon of light all around to take the region out from the current standings,,,,,,,, I have been highlighting some core issues of GB on this plate form,Today I want to replicate my ideas as I have been asked,,,,,,,To touch very briefly The first stark and primordial challenge that our region GB confronting is the sectarian violence which was spreading and perforating gradually but after the dawn of 2000 it is accelerating at a very high pace,We need to diffuse it first of all,,,,,,

The second problem which I call without any hesitation "MOTHER OF ALL LETHAL ILLS" is the decelerating rate of illiteracy or v can call it ignorance which is the breeding threshold of any dispute which creates a state of confusion among the masses by disintegrating them,Secular and religious education must go parallel to combat with clash of ignorance,as it is one of the fundamental teaching of our faith,,,,,,The 3rd one is the presence of weak and irresponsible malfunctioned paramilitary forces in our region,Instead of injecting more rangers y dont we well train our own GB police,Bring the GB police & scouts up to the same mold n level of army,

Five forces are present there in glt Army, rangers, FC, GB scouts n GB police (I dnt mind calling the dilute forces) still the situation is not in control,I think if we train the local police and Gb scouts they can maintain peace (when I say well training I also mean the state of mind),,,,,,,,

The fourth one is the trust deficit of people of Pakistan,The people of the region are absolutely in a tumultuous situation whether we r Pakistanis or not,We need to define clearly the status of GB,,,,,!!!!! We need to take extra ordinary measurements & we have to defeat these issues at the center of gravity and to struck them from the roots whatever they cost,,,,there is no way of quitting or no any option of running away from the situation,,,,,,

I just hope and pray may God bless the sole leaders of GB with noble intention ,Blessed them vision,wisdom n a spirit of patriotism so that they may shunt down their personnel interests and do take judgments, measurements n decisions in the supreme interest of the region,,,,,,,

Ali Taj: ‎Yasir Abbas, We leav it to you:}, else Respectable sir requested for those issues too:]

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Aziz Ali Faustus bai, can you comment on issues on Gilgit-Baltistan especially if you have finalized your Article on Poverty of Politics in Hunza. http://hisamullahbeg.blogspot.com
Sarmad Saeed Khan sir Above is the personal Blog of Brig. Hissam ullah baig regarding the Current Issues in Gilgit-Baltistan. ‎Hisamullah Beg, Dear sir can you Please elaborate Emerging Issues in Gilgit Baltistan. Hisam Hunzai, your views in this regard Please http://www.mygilgit.com/blog/2011/09/22/a-letter-to-gb-by-brig-rtd-hisamullah-beg

Nur Momad: ‎@ Yasir - how can there be a dichotomy between constitution and governance? I think the two are very intricately related, affecting all spheres of life. Terrorist - Return of the tournament of shadows !! The issue of a "new cold-war", as a former chief secretary had termed , seems to be depicted in the on-going, tacit, encircling of our region by Chinese and US/NATO forces. NATO needs a strong base in Afghanistan and they may never be able to establish it in the regions of Qandahar/Herat/Khost/Helmand, where the Taliban forces have powerful presence.

The most convenient space for them to establish a base is the region controlled by forces loyal to Ahmed Shah Masood (late), who have a soft-corner for the forces opposed to Taliban.

A journalist friend informed me that there have been "Taliban attacks" in the regions close to Wakhan/Pamirs. Such "attacks" by the "Taliban" (there are hundreds of stories of fake Talibs, prepared by Indians/Americans and other holy warriors) may be orchestrated by the powers that be to create conditions and justification for stronger military base in the northern Afghanistan region.

An interesting move has also been made by China, through the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, a semi-military, state-owned, corporation, which has played an important role in changing the demographic features of Xinjiang by bringing in hundreds of thousands of Huns to the region and creating new towns for them, since 1954.

The above named "Corporation" has brought in a flood of relief for the disaster hit Gojal region, directly connected to both, Wakhan and Xinjiang!

The politics of relief may not be as "humanitarian" and "simple", as it seems. Last year, when the Chinese sent thousands of tones of relief items, the USA "responded" by distributing biscuits and chocolate, of course through the WFP, with AusAID branding.

The competition in relief distribution may very well reflect the two powers' willingness to register their messages of "sympathy" with the people living in the border areas, who are most likely going to get affected by the war, either hot, or cold.

The "Taliban attack" in Chitral, which served to be a pre-text for deployment of military in Chitral and some parts of Chipursan Valley (Gojal) may also hint towards the changing military-dynamics of the region.

All these changes are likely to make the indigenous populations more vulnerable to exploitation, while causing a a lot of cultural, economic and social tension in the entire region.

Ali Taj: Finally, few good things: First, the youth is ready to work with state machinery volunteerily to tackle issues faced by GB, I myself running a student led initiative, similarly, Nur, Kamil Bhai and many others. We need back up from state machinary so, that we can engage others too in healthy activities driving GB out of problems. A good number of educated men and women will soon return to GB equipped with modern education and information to serve at their best, State must ensure opportunities for them. Also, the day by day improving image of GB internationaly as well as locally, might attract tourists and once again restore this key economic activty. State must take steps to speed up this process.

Nur Momad: sorry... not AusAID .. i meant USAID in my last comment.

Yasir Abbas: ‎Ali Taj, i wish

Zameer Abbas: Sarmad Sir! GB faces all the problems which any remote, out-of-mainstream and underdeveloped area of Pakistan could be facing. To name but few the area is challenged when it comes to government education, health facilities, employment opportunities and social security.

Unfortunately, the government is yet to reach out to the population which lives in far flung areas in virtually medieval conditions. During my service in Gilgit, Hunza, Astore and Skardu, I have come across people living in much below the poverty or other development indices. To these people, it hardly matters if there is a new chief minister or so and so has become the governor i.e. a major shake-up in the system.

So the biggest problem is governmental outreach in terms of bringing the population into the social net by providing facilities in the sectors mentioned here above.

Ancestral land ownership has accounted for relatively low level of poverty. Jobless heads of families have used their land as a last succor(mainly by selling it or growing cash crops on it). But this resource is fast diminishing in the face of an increasing population which is using it for construction instead of growing crops. For obvious reasons, the situation is more alarming in so-called big cities like Gilgit and Skardu.

Last but not the least, Gilgit has been reeling under sectarian violence since decades. The administration of the area can play a crucial part by bringing the “supreme” leaders of Shia and Sunni communities together as the scourge of sectarianism is an outside phenomenon in the region. . At the same time, those involved in acts of violence need to be punished which, sadly, hasn’t happened so far.

Rehman Pak: A friend says: "Sir...sir...sir... just look at... a Stalin-like policeman runs the intellectuals of Gilgit-Baltistan like herds of sheep... as the ISI does with the so-called local leaders... I'm ashamed... this policeman will now recycle these ideas before grade-18 clerical minds... this oppressive behavior is the basic reason for the suffering of the 2 million people of GB since 1947."

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Rais Kamil Jan Baigal, any comments on Rehman's comments?

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: Sarmad Saeed Khan, Dear sir, out of 48 Comments I am happy that we got 47 logical Comments. As in Gilgit-Baltistan you better now Youth like Us Pro-Pakistani and real Nationalist are also considered as Traitors, our Nationalism is considered as ISI-Installed thoughts and Viz-&-Viz. 

In Gilgit-Baltistan Raw Funded, and Great Game Players and their Local Agents have hijacked holy word of "Nationalist". I have asked many time from Many So called Nationalist's what is there Social, Political and economic Agenda. In our Intellectual Journey, Social Development Projects, Youth Mobilization, and Positive games, we have never found any of them around us. They are following some Hidden Agenda's which are now no more Hidden (i.e. Getting Dollars), Its clear that you can find them in baseless Activities, and Illogical thoughts cycles. 

Let me Ask Rehman Pak what is the logic of ISI for all of this Issue Identification, and I have found this person new in our Plate form, This is his First comment. And i cannot Assured that he is from Gilgit-Baltistan (may be this is Fake Profiles). But we will leave his comments over there for Accepting his freedom of Speech, and mean while we will paste ours. But I expect respect for each others at-least keeping age and Culture of GB in due consideration. 

@Sarmad sir, You must feel proud that in your single request we feel proud of you and took u as our voice and best Opportunity for raising our issues in National Plate form from where we can expect dividend in form of progress, Networking and development. so in all of the above we are in democratic Country and Majority by expressing their views have given you Full mandate of representing our Concerns and real issues in that plate form. 

Form GBVM (www.gbvm.org) I am very grateful, Obliged and in debt for your Concerns and care for us: GBVM Salutes you for that. And in future we are ready for working and making Gilgit-Baltistan as one of the Peaceful, Organized, Pluralistic, Diversified and Strong Communal and Socially Well Connected Province in Pakistan.

Atif Khurshid: Raees Kamil Jan, you and your team are doing a great job - keep it up!

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Sarmad Saeed Khan, Look Sir you got strong Voice of Support from Atif bai, He is working in UN-USA. thanks Atif bai.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Thanks Raees Kamil Jan Baigal, we should not waste time on the self styled intellectual like Rehman Pak.

It was easier for me to contact the CS and IGP of Northern Areas for their views or just repeat my old presentations but that would have been intellectual dishonesty. I want the latest input on issues of the GB. The forum I am going to speak to comprises officers from PSP, DMG, Accounts and other important professional groups. 

I am repeating the possible areas of discussion. Please request your contacts to give their considered opinion: "Please comment on the conflict over land acquisition in Diamer for Bhasah Dam. I have heard that people have got huge sums of money for their arid land and have now bought lands in Ghizer and Gilgit which has brought about some demographic changes. What about the presence of Taliban between Phunder and Shandur? What about the boundary dispute between Chitral and Ghizer? How about influence of the MQM? Has Nulter power project started working satisfactorily? What about one Secretary holding two or more charges?The taxation Issue? Did you get equipment like MRI, CT Scan etc? How's the issue of the nationalist forces going on? How about sectarian polarization among the government servants?"

Masood Azam: I think people of GB are allowed to acquire land any where in GB, without any reservations or apprehensions. As all people of GB have same culture and traditions, well it will be appropriate to say the difference is negligible. As far change is a constant thing. :) There is no presence of Taliban specially places like Phunder and Shandur. Wish ya best of luck Sir.

Fauzia Wali Khan: sarmad saab.. thank you for your honest approach and interest.. stay strong sir- represent us at the forum..

Nur Momad: Taxation - I am, personally, in favour of taxation in view of its importance for the region's economy and autonomy.However, vast majority of the region's people have reservations against the imposition of taxes, mainly on the basis of "no taxation without representation" ideology. However, we need to understand that till resolution of the Kashmir dispute, we may never be able to get a representation in the Pakistani parliament. Till then, our economic dependency on the centre would also have political and social implications. Our policy makers may have to make many compromises, in order to come up to the growing needs of the region's populace. The Centre is highly unlikely to give hand-outs to GB in the years ahead.

Our dependence on the centre, currently, is such that if they withdraw the wheat subsidy, our region's economy may completely get destabilized.

I, personally, think that the current and future governments need to educate our people that for decreasing the economic dependence on Islamabad, we need to raise our own revenues, through taxation.

Shandur row - My personal opinion is that the issue is basically local in nature, not regional. The pasture of Shandur is disputed between the people of Phandar and Laspur (Chitral). All efforts should be made to stop the jingoists' efforts to broaden the scope of the row to inter-district, or worst, inter-'provincial' level.

Health facilities - Even if all the machines were available in GB, the lack of trained professionals would make their presence useless. There are several well equipped hospital building, not being utilized because of the dearth of doctors and paramedical staff. By and large, our health system is very weak, specially in the far-flung areas

MQM - I think this party is being promoted by the establishment as part of a broader strategy to weaken the nationalist movements. The major slogans of MQM are;

- "autonomy-in-the-ambit of Pakistan",
- "representative of the lower-middle and middle class",
- "representation for GB in the national assembly"
- "Promotion of regional cultures"
- "end to hereditary politics"

These slogans echo well with majority of the people of GB. Many are still wary of the party because of its various notorieties and "fascistic approaches."

With the downfall of PPP, which seems quite certain, the second majority would, seemingly, shift to the MQM and PMLN. The nationalists will, by and large, remain irrelevant for some time. The nationalists need to understand that majority people of GB, no matter how much against the oppressions and suppression, want to remain part of Pakistan. All separatists are, most likely, going to remain irrelevant in the broader political scenario, with some surprises, on and off.

Naltar Power Project - Gilgit is still faced with severe load-shedding, which may indicate that the project has yet to be effective, if ever.

Zafar Iqbal: Sarmad Saeed sb! Corruption, power shortage, infrastructure, education, health, religious xenophobia are the problems of GB

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Nur Momad, thank you very much for your valuable input.

Nur Momad: Secretaries holding multiple departments -

If modern management methods are relevant (which, I believe, they are), the more 'diverse work' you give to a manager (public or corporate), the lesser will be his/her efficiency.

Focused work has a greater performance yield and turnover.

In this context, if we look at GB, there are two secretaries (that I know of) holding 6/7 departments. The man responsible for Education, is also expected to look after Special Education, Social Welfare and Women Development. And the result is that a Special Education Complex in Gilgit city has been non-functional due to lack of funds.

Similarly, another secretary, is responsible for Planning and Development, Youth Affairs, Culture, Sports and Tourism.

No matter how efficient and dexterous, a public servant will always feel his hands tied, when asked to look after so many crucial departments, simultaneously.

The CM, who has 4 ministries, under his arm, should not only release the pressure off himself, but he shall also ease the government employees by making the relevant people available, by forcefully advocating the formation of GBPSC, as well as getting more people from other sources.
Thank you sir. It is my pleasure.

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal, About RehmanPak - I had blocked him for several months. Today I unblocked him to read his comments, after seeing his name come up in the discussion, and as usual he has only speculations to offer. So I am blocking him again on my personal profile :-)

Rehman Pak: ‎Raees Kamil Jan Baigal, thanks for the direct comment and showing the grace! Again the friend has sent me this comment:

"Why people like Nur Momad are not invited to organizations like National Institute of Management Sciences Lahore to present the real picture of Gilgit-Baltistan? Why officers from Gilgit-Baltistan are not given promotion to become Chief Secretary or Inspector General Police or Four-star generals in the armed forces? Why the talented locals, as seen here, are let to depend on Sarmad Saeed Khans? Why the 2 million people of Gilgit-Baltistan are not given the status of a Constitutional Fifth Province, plus representation in the National Assembly and Senate of Pakistan (even 64 years after the independence)? For how long this exploitation of the innocent people of Gilgit-Baltistan, who love Pakistan as their mother-land, will go on?

‎"From this representative forum, Gilgit Baltistan Volunteer Movement, let us write to the management of the National Institute of Management Sciences Lahore to invite Nur Momad or any other representative scholar from Gilgit-Baltistan to lecture the officers there... so that their "Stalin-like" behavior changes and they become public-servants not masters in our Pakistan, the land of the 184 million deaf, dumb and terrorized citizens."

Nur Momad: I appreciate Sarmad Saeed sb's initiative of asking the GBVM members for their opinions. He could have made his presentation without even letting us know! I am thankful to him for taking the initiative and considering our opinions worth it.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Ali Taj, thank you for your valuable input.

Raja Hussain: Sarmad sahib give me ur email i will send u whats wrong with new sestem

Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎Raja Hussain shb, Let it be Open secret in front of Public, we must know this.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Raja Hussain, my email address is sarmadsaeedkhan@gmail.com. Thanks in anticipation.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: I have selected the following issues for discussion. You may please add more or advise me to exclude some: Constitutional confusion
Politicians are not empowered
Unemployment due to economic crunch and ban on recruitment
Economic crunch due to closure of KKH at Atta Abad
Amount of compensation to Atta Abad affectees remains unpaid
Worn out KKH and long distance to down country
Short airstrip and uncertain flight schedules
Lack of health facilities
Lack of excellent educational facilities
Administration from down country lacks commitment
Political parties of down-country have no stakes
Local bureaucrats lack capacity and neutrality
No revenue generation
Unsettled land acquisition problem for Bhasha Dam affectees
Demographic changes due to migration from Chillas
US presence in Wakhan Strip
Taliban presence in Hundrab National Park
Unsettled boundary disputes with KPK
Sectarian conflict remains unresolved
Ethnic and sectarian polarization
Corruption in bureaucracy
Non-local paramilitary have no respect for local traditions
Issue of nationalism
Lack of infrastructure
Wheat subsidy
Geopolitical vested interests

Nur Momad: Sir, can we think of nationalism, not as an issue, but a solution for the region's sectarian strife. The list is pretty comprehensive.

Rehman Pak: The friend has asked again: "Sarmad Saeed Khan, what do you mean by: 'Local bureaucrats lack capacity and neutrality'? Is this the reason that people from Gilgit-Baltistan reportedly can't be YOU, I mean IG police, chief secretory or a four-star general in Pakistan? If so then how come Mr. Shigri can become IG Sindh and NWFP polices or G.M. Sikander can become a leading officer in Punjab and Center?? Why are you guys using oppressive tactics with the local officers, whom you call 'frogs of the pound'? "

Rehman Pak: ‎"Isn't it true that bureaucrats from down are appointed in Gilgit as a reward who earn billions for themselves and their patrons from the Pak-China trade and other means? What was your assets before appointment in Gilgit? How you managed to buy houses in Islamabad and Lahore plus commercial plots? What was your working relationship with the ISI then and now? Didn't you once said to a colleague: whenever the Gilgitis demand Constitutional rights, just give guns in their hands they will start fighting... or beat a drum they will start dancing... and forget everything in the world?"

[There is a pin-drop silence!]

Rehman Pak: I have been told not to name ISI here… so tell me, do  some Shia, Sunni and Ismaili leading people along with secret agencies "engineer" killing of their own people to get personal benefits. See: http://theterrorland.blogspot.com/2011/04/i-fear-no-one-on-earth-says-isi.html

[The moderator instantly removes this comment]

Rehman Pak: @ Raees Kamil Jan Baigal, if you are a true lover of Pakistan, not just working for personal gain, then don’t remove my comments let’s have dialogue.

[The moderator instantly removes this comment as well]

Rehman Pak: @ Raees Kamil Jan Baigal, is Sarmad Saeed Khan your father or brother because you both share the moustaches?

[Again the moderator instantly removes this comment]

Fauzia Wali Khan: Rehman saab.. i like this excerpt from your comment: "Whenever the Gilgitis demand Constitutional Rights, just give guns in their hands they will start fighting... or beat a drum they will start dancing... and forget everything in the world?".. somewhat accurate..

Sarmad Saeed Khan: Nur Momad, nationalism is not an issue but the audience has to be apprised of its nature in GB.

Sarmad Saeed Khan: I should not indulge in discussion with an odd person with deranged mind but I offer that all my residential and commercial plots and houses in Islamabad and Gilgit that I bought after my posting in GB stand donated for flood affectees of GB. I don't know whose quotation he has attributed to me. I came to the forum with sincere and positive intentions not for getting insulted. I think this is my last post.

[Before Rehman Pak could comment, he was blocked]
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7 comments:

  1. Mr Habib you are a liar. Neither the people nor the government ever considered the people of Gilgit/Baltistan to be parriah. Obviously the kind of blog that you have initiated -it appears to be a handi work of a professional organisation. Pray how many lacs a month do you get to be an agent?
    You are Gaddaar playing in the hands of RAW. Shame on you.
    am

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  2. The so-called Chief Minister (CM) is unable to transfer even a clerk in his hometown Skardu. "What kind of a government is this which has no mention of legality in the Pakistani Constitution. One toothless local has been made Governor and the other CM... but the authority lies with the non-local key officials: Chief Secretary, IG Police, Chairman Chief Court, and Force Commander (a serving major-general). The claims of empowerment of locals is nothing but another big fraud with us."

    Gilgit-Baltistan wants no less than Parliament:

    http://theterrorland.blogspot.com/2011/11/kashmiri-music-gilgit-baltistan-wants.html?

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  3. thx 4 this post.

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  4. @Rehman, What you missed is here in parts:-

    a-

    Fauzia Wali Khan: dear sir.. Sarmad saab.. no plz dont let the voices of criticism let you leave.. we need you.. and since you have served our region, you belong to us.. we value your interest.. God Bless. fauzia wk.

    Atif Khurshid: Sarmad sahib ignore Rahman Pak' comments and I agree with your list. I am from GB and we were proud to have you as our IG and would like to have you again. In terms of list I would like to second the point in your list that officer from GB need training and capacity development. There is no doubt that our officers are competent but further training and exposure will improve their management and administrative skills.

    Ali Ahmad Jan: I second the comments of Atif Khurshid regarding the issues of understanding and capacity level of legislatures and officials.New policies are to be made regarding Land, revenue, law &Order etc which have been decentralized after 18th amendment in the constitution but never been practiced before Presidential order in the area. One of the examples could be of absence of Land Acquisition rules and the government is acquiring land for Diamer Basha Dam. Likewise the tax issue and Minerals is simply a case of legislation and policy making. The rest of the issues would follow.

    Aziz Ali Faustus: We all are facebook tigers.... Including me.

    Zaeem Zia: ‎Fauzia Wali Khan _ He Served in Gilgit-Baltistan for a long time- what were his contributions?? and rather getting emotional over the comments- He should respond to them rather quitting the forum. Why was rehman pak Blocked fom the forum?? May i ask Raees Kamil Jan Baigal ?? Is not it DEMOCRACY here in your forum? and yes I agree with Mr. Aziz Ali Faustus - By sitting on FB and using our Psuedo-Intellect and random comments over government would bring in the reforms in our home land-GB??? Is that what we are up to??? How are we contributing on the personal and Individual level??? Just by criticizing people on FB??? Lol-

    Zameer Abbas: Now this looks like Capital Talk ! So where is the book i was reading :D

    Fauzia Wali Khan i understand..zaeem. but he is neither on trial nor are we interested in public lynchings. nor do we wish to personalize members comments or discussions..the person needed our views for a an academic presentation..that is all.

    Zaeem Zia: ‎Raees Kamil Jan Baigal - Please do not delete people from this forum unless someone goes beyond the limits on moral grounds- You cant just delete anyone on the basis of arguments he put forward or queries with no logical answers- It is so Non-Democratic- I believe. Fauzia Wali Khan ZIZI I totally agree with you.

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  5. b-

    Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: ‎@zaem Rehman Pak is there, We have not Delted his Comments, But I second Ali bai and Atif Khurshid bai's comments. Rehman pak acted like Hamed Mir of Capital Talk, I donot want to comment on the Rehman Pak status and his identifcation. I am confident that every Face book Frined know me personally with name and Position and thoughts. I think Rehman must prove his identity first and before commenting on personality he must physical evidnece to prove his poisition. Its sad that Geo and our Media has made our mind and thoughts to criticize others without having any prove. Sarmad Saeed Khan sir Again majority in our Fourm's Members are with you, Plz donot Let this forum and guide us with your Vision. May be Rehman Pak has some other agenda of not lettting us to get matured and Informed decision making and Representation.for his Illogical comment of giving Weapon in the hand of Gilgit-Baltistan why our people are taking this in their hand. this is not Federal Secterries and Down Countries Officers Killing GB but our peoples. For rehman's Comments of making properties this is the best way of showing Maturity Level, and Mentality level. I am with Saramd Saeed shb, niether he is my boss, nor he is doing some thing for me, but I salute him for the Vision of Offering his services, You named many officers from GB, so where is Shirgri shb, Where is GM Sikander, What is ther role of bringing and taking our Voices in Federal Level. Shirigi shb is runing Foundation having Slogan of serving Humanity while he has worked and working only for Baltistan. So please Keep your Passion high sir.

    Nazeer Uddin: to solve the matters of gilgit baltistan are not in the hands of polce sir

    Raees Kamil Jan Baigal: Sarmad Saeed Khan sir, Thanks for your share, I have got Objective for our upcoming GB-Society Review. We must now bring Real Issues, understand that Issues and must brought recommendations and Project to cover up that real issues in GB. I am now trying to working out of Facebook,

    Zaeem Zia: ‎Raees Kamil Jan Baigal - please do not add people with Fake IDS- I am with you!

    Nur Momad: I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing issues on facebook. Whether ideas are pseudo-intellectual or at part with Aristotle and Socrates is secondary. Participation is important. Those who have risen to the zenith of intellectualism must have started somewhere! I disagree with the notion of intellectual elitism. Intellectual humility is the key-word.

    Zaeem Zia: ‎Nur Momad- you can't add up people with fake IDs and comments for sake of conflicts- We need to Identify the person to value the comments- I believe in freedom of expression WITH IDENTITY not WITHOUT :). that was the oint.. And If you would read my comment- you would know that the notion was to ensure the freedom speech and look at my demand for the rehman pak's profile :)

    Nur Momad: I appreciate your emphasis on objectivity. However, let's not be judgemental, by using terms that seem to demean others' ideas.

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  6. c-

    Zaeem Zia: Dear Nur Momad - What are you talking about??? Who is being judgmental??? and who demeaning the Ideas??? It does not make any sense ATLEAST here!

    Nur Momad: ‎"By sitting on FB and using our Psuedo-Intellect and random comments over government would bring in the reforms in our home land-GB??? Is that what we are up to??? How are we contributing on the personal and Individual level??? Just by criticizing people on FB??? Lol-"

    Zaeem Zia: I was not being biased- I request you to read the thread again to reply :) I stand that!
    ·
    Nur Momad Can you kindly point out the comments above that smell of pseudo-intellect and seem to be 'random thoughts'.

    Zaeem Zia I don't want to be specific- But roughly- there are people who had been commenting on the capacities of the Legislators, Officials,Social workers and Technocrats. which is NOT right. you can read the thread which will give you an Idea- what I am talking about

    Nur Momad Zaeem bhai .... I think there are several capacity issues with our legislators, elected or selected, officials and others. Not because of the people's leadership capacity, but because of their non-familiarity with the process of legislation and policy making. How many of our current leaders have experience of organized legislation? There are bound to be deficiencies in all of us, as human beings, which can be improved. Men and women are always teachable.

    Zaeem Zia Thats what my pint is - Sir :)

    Zaeem Zia and my message was for the peopel who actually forget their own shortcomings and incompatibilities- and are outspoken about others-

    Zaffar Baig SSK: The main problems of Gilgit-Baltistan are: a) Empower the Legislative Assembly of GB in terms of null and void of Laws b) Get rid of from the Kashmir Affairs Division c) Streamline the Judiciary with the Supreme Court of Pakistan and d) Devolution powers at gross roots level.

    Zaffar Baig SSK: Development Sector: a) Development funds should be raised from Rs. 6 billion to Rs. 30 billion as the area is very scattered b) Pak/China border, weight-age should be given to GB people in terms of tariff so that employment would be generated and c) GB economy dependent on Natural Resource Management (NRM), therefore, government should concentrate on this field, so that people would become prosper.

    =====

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